arguments FOR donor sperm


#1

I feel a little safe asking this question bc we are not in a position to make this decision right now, as we have two more adopted embryos we are transferring next month, so I am hoping that will be that. But worst case scenario, we need to decide if we are going to keep trying with donor embryos or decide to go the ds route.

If we were to go the ds route, we’d go with donor IUI, versus FET for our donor embryos. The main reason I’m considering the former is due to cost - IUIs are cheaper than FETs, from what I understand. The main reason I’m resisting the former is bc I’m having a hard time separating the genetic mixing with the normal sexual act that comes with such mixing, if you will. My mind understands that there is no infidelity on my part, but my heart aches at the thought of seeing our child, my DH’s and mine, and having to tell that child that they are not genetically their father’s. With donor embryo, I see it as a prenatal adoption, and after years of trying to adopt and educating myself on that, I have no problem explaining the circumstances in the form of an adoption to a child born thanks to embryo donation.

But I feel guilty at the thought of having MY child (fully, genetically, in every sense of the word) with some other man. I have no gut desire to pass on my DNA, no need to see my child resemble me. I honestly would rather be able to use the shell of my ovum without the dna link, so that it could be more like an embryo donation, than to procreate with another man’s goodies.

I’ve heard of various ways that people explain how they look at ds, and I think that if I had to, I could come to view it in a way that’s different from how I see it now. So I was hoping those of you who have gone the ds route (or are currently pursuing it) could give me the Cliff Notes of how you view the use of donor gametes being mixed with your own gametes.

I’ve thought of how I’m genetically linked to people I don’t know and don’t care about, and how DH likewise has a genetic family that may be better to forget about, so thinking of going forward with “foreign” gametes has nothing to do with wanting to maintain a link with our past. That’s irrelevant. People that share no blood ties to me are the closest people in my life. It’s not that. I guess I’m stuck at the mixing part.

In one scenario, I thought that if we had to go this route, I’d want DH to pick out the donor and do a home insemination that he would fully be a part of (sorry if TMI).

But as long as we’re thinking of donor embryos, or adoption, we are fully committed to openness, and having the child know what their genetic history is, and being able to meet their genetic ancestors or siblings. But as soon as I think about our child meeting their sperm donor, I have thoughts of that child introducing me as their mother and this stranger as their “biological father”, thus putting me and him into some cosmic relationship that I want no part of.

Anyway, so those are my hangups. I’d be happy to read how you all overcame them, and why you chose this route over others, especially over donor embryos. (One thing DH most recently said is that he wants 2 things to come of our journey: 1) that we have a child to raise together, and 2) that I get to carry that child. He doesn’t want to do a microTESE to completely rule out the possibility of having a genetic child; we are currently trying donor embryo FETs; and the third possibility for this outcome of his is ds.)


#2

Bumping. Maybe I should clarify what I mean… what are the pros of using ds versus other alternatives? I’ve actually done a little side-by-side comparison for myself already, and amazingly I think I am starting to come around to the idea, if it becomes necessary, and if the alternative is another batch of donor embryos that are not DH’s ethnicity. But I’d still love to hear what goes into others’ decision making process.


#3

Well, i had thought the past few weeks about trying some IUI’s with Donor sperm since DH’s sperm has very poor morphology and without ICSI, his sperm cant fertiliize my eggs. So, i had thought about doing a few IUI’s or home inseminations to see if maybe we get lucky and its actually his sperm, not my eggs. well… i just got recent lab work done and it looks like my FSH is still high, and i dont think IUI’s are even an option now. To me, it doesnt matter if i use DS. But that is just me. We have a non-bio son and a bio son and there is NO difference in my sons’ in my feelings towards them. Would it kinda be “odd” to have a baby with another man??? Maybe… but i dont look at it as adultery or anything like that. God put obstacles infront of me for us to overcome… one way or another…

Since my first IVF was a bust, if we do an egg donor cycle (which is looking like we will have to since we have no match on MW) i was thinking that we should maybe fertilize some with my DH’s sperm and some with DS. Strictly because i dont want my husband’s sperm to not be good and have a whole egg donor cycle go down the drain cuz of bad sperm. I heard somewhere that by Day 3 the sperm starts taking over, and my embryos from our IVF started to go bad on Day 3. Coincidence??? maybe… I guess i would feel better if we had a back up and if the ones with my DH"s sperm are good and continue to grow to Day 5, then we use them first. If not, we use the ones with DS. Hmmmmm, i wonder if anyone has ever done that… Ill have to post that question.

We would like to use donated embryos but unless they are from an egg donor, we dont even want to try. We dont have the money to waste unfortunetly.

I understand your hesitation. i hope that you can find an answer. Or better yet, i hope your next 2 embies stick and you dont even have to consider this issue.


#4

Simply put…there was no other option. There was a lot of tears and second guessing…but the need/want to have a baby took over. If we wanted a baby the sperm was going to have to come from somewhere. It was hard to pick a donor because of all the options …we had to prioritize what was most important. Health of donor family was a big one… It sucks to have to pay for each little piece of info on each donor we were interested in. That part just makes you feel taken advantage of.

As for the at home insemination part…we considered that…until we found out how expensive sperm is…my doctor put it this way, “With sex the sperm have to swim the Atlantic, with an iui they’ve already landed on the beach.”

We wanted the best odds possible…


#5

rd - you say you wouldn’t even consider donor embryos without an egg donor, but I think there are several situations where that should not be a factor. If the donating couple had strictly male factor infertility, there’s no reason not to trust the donor’s eggs. Or if the donors are a lesbian couple, again there were no problems with their eggs. Some women after having a tubal ligation choose to do IVF versus a reversal, so again, there’s nothing wrong with her eggs. In our case, our donor had uterine issues (much scarring causing recurrent miscarriages), so since she was also young at time of her IVF, we thought it was a safe bet. (It remains to be seen, with the second FET pending.) Just wanted to throw that out there so you don’t automatically dismiss donor embryos not from donor eggs.

pixelpie - the Atlantic/beach comparison is interesting. Do I understand correctly then that an intra-cervical insemination is essentially the equivalent of intercourse (as far as the Atlantic/beach comparison)? I guess that’s the only DI even possible at home.


#6

Yes, i know that there are situations where donated embies are not created because of female problems. Just that there arent many situations where there is an early to mid 20’s woman with no problems doing IVF and donating their frozen ones. Not that we wouldnt consider it, just that age is a factor when not using donor eggs, even if the female is rather young. Id like to take my limited $$$ and put it towards donor egg embies if we get that option. And we havent had ANY success with locating any on MW, so im thinking the clinic route is the way we would have to go if we go this route. I think the 2 kids thing is really a turn off for most donors. Which is understand to a certain extent, but its starting to feel ALOT like a domestic adoption situation. You put yourself out there and hope someone picks you. Feels soooo much like a popularity contest. Just waiting around hoping someone likes that you have 2 kids, dont have a fabulous job, are not rich, no college education, and are just “plain” so to speak. Finances and material things dont make you a good parent or a good family. just burns me when i see… Must be financially secure. Ahhh… there are tons of people who make all sorts of money, cant manage it to save their life, and have tons of debt. But… they are financiallly secure ya know!!! :grr: Exactly one of the reasons why we wanted to not do a second adoption. Anyways, sorry!!! got WAY off topic here. You can have your thread back now!!! Ill get off my soapbox!!!

ETA: I know that a donor would want to have the best possible family for their embies (children) to go to, and i understand that completely!!! Didnt want to sound rude or like donors shouldnt be selective. Just crabby today i guess!!!


#7

rd - you didn’t sound crabby to me. I know exactly what you mean with being selected by people who frankly, I’m the one questioning why they’re in that situation to begin with (talking about some of our adoption leads, NOT the embryo donors!).

Have you been to this site? www.embryodonation.com I totally forgot about it until recently. You can search for available embies without registering, and there are those donors who want an open situation, and those that want annonymous.


#8

[quote=anilorak13ska]rd - you didn’t sound crabby to me. I know exactly what you mean with being selected by people who frankly, I’m the one questioning why they’re in that situation to begin with (talking about some of our adoption leads, NOT the embryo donors!).

Have you been to this site? www.embryodonation.com I totally forgot about it until recently. You can search for available embies without registering, and there are those donors who want an open situation, and those that want annonymous.[/quote]

thanks… yes, i have looked. I have talked to them and since we have 2 kids already, we move to the bottom of the waiting list. And would more than likely not be matched in a decent time frame because they prefer childless couples over those that have 1 and 2 and 3,etc etc kids. And they are in Florida and the facility costs a little too much IMO. Thanks anyways tho…
Something will come along and we will know what path to choose. We are considering every option right now. Im sure this is just one of my…" Nothing is going right" days.


#9

Anil, I feel almost exactly as you! Only we are just now in the position of going through treatment options and such. I am so lost and confused as to what to do. My husband has Azoospermia and the RE suggested we do IVF/ICSI with a biopsy the same day as my egg retrevial. With the possibility of either finding sperm or not…ughh.
I know we have gotten alot of opinions that we need to test further, go to different UROs, REs etc, etc etc. But honestly DH is tired and we have nethier the time nor the extra money for all of that. All of our IF treatment, tests, etc are completely out of pocket. :frowning:

We decided to take the leap of faith and proceed later this year with IVF but do we have DS as backup in case there is no sperm? We will already be in the IVF process I hate to just cancel it, but we aren’t sure how we feel about DS. Even if the IVF goes well but ends in a BFN are we going to proceed with DSIUIs or is embryo adoption better? I feel as you do that embryo adoption is the adoption of a life that was already formed and DS is a creation of another life …with another person…
There is alot of things out there about how children born to DS feel lost, like strangers, etc etc. But children who are adopted also feel things along those lines too.

I feel like for myself I would feel more comfortable with “adopting a life” but the medical part of me says " I want my own good eggs and I know my body". It’s just such a hard decision and I am back and forth everyday. One minute I think I’ve decided, the next I haven’t. This all just sucks and I hate it! But it’s unfortatnely something we must deal with and face.
Good Luck to you and hopefully your next two embies cozy up and you won’t have to worry! :slight_smile:


#10

Just to throw a monkey wrench in the discussion, I recently watched a video that pointed out that if it wouldn’t be for immigration and the larger families many immigrants bring with them, the US population would be declining at a rate similar to Germany, where the new generation is not replacing the previous one. For the first time I thought how in that case, creating a new life versus say, adopting a child already in the US, would actually be beneficial. I throw that in there bc before that, I couldn’t think of a single positive reason to choose ds from the view of the larger scheme of things, but now I have. Go firgure :wink:

[B]amt0311[/B]- previously, when we were considering the mTESE, I remember thinking how can people simultaneously be prepared for ds while at the same time still trying to retrieve their own sperm. But now I understand that at that point, your own sperm is actually the long-shot, at least that’s how I’d see it if we would now try that route. We’ve already moved past not using our own gametes, so this would just be a way to cover all our bases “just in case”, but in all reality go forward with the IVF and intend to use ds. However, DH just doesn’t think getting cut up down there is something he wants to do again. He said if the chances were higher, he’d consider it. So I think you’d need to come to terms with using ds first, take the time to choose your donor, get whatever counseling may be beneficial, and then proceed and if you luck out, you won’t need it, but if you do, you’ll be prepared.


#11

[quote=amt0311]Anil, I feel almost exactly as you! Only we are just now in the position of going through treatment options and such. I am so lost and confused as to what to do. My husband has Azoospermia and the RE suggested we do IVF/ICSI with a biopsy the same day as my egg retrevial. With the possibility of either finding sperm or not…ughh.
I know we have gotten alot of opinions that we need to test further, go to different UROs, REs etc, etc etc. But honestly DH is tired and we have nethier the time nor the extra money for all of that. All of our IF treatment, tests, etc are completely out of pocket. :frowning:

We decided to take the leap of faith and proceed later this year with IVF but do we have DS as backup in case there is no sperm? We will already be in the IVF process I hate to just cancel it, but we aren’t sure how we feel about DS. Even if the IVF goes well but ends in a BFN are we going to proceed with DSIUIs or is embryo adoption better? I feel as you do that embryo adoption is the adoption of a life that was already formed and DS is a creation of another life …with another person…
There is alot of things out there about how children born to DS feel lost, like strangers, etc etc. But children who are adopted also feel things along those lines too.

I feel like for myself I would feel more comfortable with “adopting a life” but the medical part of me says " I want my own good eggs and I know my body". It’s just such a hard decision and I am back and forth everyday. One minute I think I’ve decided, the next I haven’t. This all just sucks and I hate it! But it’s unfortatnely something we must deal with and face.
Good Luck to you and hopefully your next two embies cozy up and you won’t have to worry! :)[/quote]

I think we are in the same boat as you! It’s a very hard decision. We just went to see the specialist for my DH and they want to do a TESE with my ER the next morning. (mind you, the two sites are 3 hours away). We will be discussing with my RE in a week about what she thinks about this. We have already attempted IVF with ICSI once. I, personally, found it exhausting…mentally, physically, emotionally and financially (since we two, are paying for everything ourselves).

I have stated to my DH that I would like DS backup because I do not want to go through this process again on a 1-10% chance of it working. We don’t even know if they will find any sperm when they do the TESE.

We were almost prepared for adoption when we were told that we could not do an International adoption because of the cancer dx. Next, we want an infant due to the developmental problems associated with older children and none of it is for sure, with lots of money associated with it. NEXT, we looked into Foster-to-adopt…but read a really good (horrible) book about adoption called “Can this child be saved” which scared the daylights out of us.

I know that we can’t predict what our child would have been like but I worry about genetics, ect. And when you add that we just want our child to look similar to us…well, to the general population we sound horribly selfish.

I never dreamed that this whole journey would be so complicated and it seems there is never a “right” answer…or at least we haven’t found it yet.


#12

Hi reading through your post felt a little like de ja vu. My dh and I went through the same thing last year. He had the MTese procedure and we found no sperm. We live in Australia and found a surgeon who was prepared to give it a try. Even though we had less than a 30% chance they would find sperm we honestly thought it was 100% and had our hopes pinned on it. I went through an ivf cycle and egg retrieval happened at the same time. We were absolutely devasted when the surgeon told us our prognosis - no bio child for us…ever. At the time my dh wanted to have a ds ‘back up’ but I couldn’t get my head around using ds before I had come to terms with my dh having no sperm. Anyway so we had no ‘back up’ plan. Now 9 months later (we are already over ‘that anniversary’ date) we need to make a decision about using ds with my frozen eggs. I’m glad that we didn’t go for the back up plan. I really needed to grieve for the bio child which we can’t have before moving forward and becoming excited about the possibility to use ds. My dh is fine with it, more than I am actually. But he has probably had years to think about what if I can’t have children of my own, even though he was only recently diagnosed with azo. You need to do what’s right for you. Don’t let anyone talk you into using ds, if you’re not ready. I did think I would have 9 months to get use to the idea but honestly I’m glad a waited. Even though the ivf cycle may have been a waste of $$ I would do it all over again if we needed to. This if journey certainly is emotionally, physically and financially draining but I know at the end of the road…it will all be worthwhile. Praying for everyone out there who has to go through this. May God give us the strength and the courage to face these issues/concerns and may we all be stronger people (and in the end better parents for this). My councellor said to dh and I recently, our child (one day) will be so grateful for having parents who love them and wanted them so much.

[QUOTE=amt0311]Anil, I feel almost exactly as you! Only we are just now in the position of going through treatment options and such. I am so lost and confused as to what to do. My husband has Azoospermia and the RE suggested we do IVF/ICSI with a biopsy the same day as my egg retrevial. With the possibility of either finding sperm or not…ughh.
I know we have gotten alot of opinions that we need to test further, go to different UROs, REs etc, etc etc. But honestly DH is tired and we have nethier the time nor the extra money for all of that. All of our IF treatment, tests, etc are completely out of pocket. :frowning:

We decided to take the leap of faith and proceed later this year with IVF but do we have DS as backup in case there is no sperm? We will already be in the IVF process I hate to just cancel it, but we aren’t sure how we feel about DS. Even if the IVF goes well but ends in a BFN are we going to proceed with DSIUIs or is embryo adoption better? I feel as you do that embryo adoption is the adoption of a life that was already formed and DS is a creation of another life …with another person…
There is alot of things out there about how children born to DS feel lost, like strangers, etc etc. But children who are adopted also feel things along those lines too.

I feel like for myself I would feel more comfortable with “adopting a life” but the medical part of me says " I want my own good eggs and I know my body". It’s just such a hard decision and I am back and forth everyday. One minute I think I’ve decided, the next I haven’t. This all just sucks and I hate it! But it’s unfortatnely something we must deal with and face.
Good Luck to you and hopefully your next two embies cozy up and you won’t have to worry! :)[/QUOTE]


#13

it took me a while, but i’m glad i found this thread. after 2 years , genetic issues xyy, and a MTese; there is no chance for a bio child. this thread adress the fact that not everyone is comfortable with ds. maybe i’m not ready for such just yet. i am greving over the bio child i’ll never have. i just posted a thread today “no child vs doner sperm” cuz i wasn’t hearing anyone saying they are unsure if they should use it. i wanted a bio child and i don’t know if a ds child woud work for me. it was a leap of faith just to say yes to a child with my husband. but we discussed it b4 we married and started building our life around the fact we would have childern. 31/2 years later i’m told we cant. i feel so lost. and am glad i’m not the only ones unsure -to say the least


#14

[B]cmtb[/B] - welcome! I wanted to alert you to another thread, now closed, that was pretty extensive regarding the OP’s hesitations to use ds. Lots of people shared their experiences there, both for and against, I believe. Maybe not against per se, but hesitant. http://forums.fertilitycommunity.com/mens-infertility-support/2020181944-i-feel-like-less-man-today.html?highlight=boston+yankee


#15

Due to my husband’s vasectomy we knew we either needed to adopt or go IVF. We talked of adoption and decided to adopt one infant, then a few years later, adopt 1-2 older kids. But insurance and Colorado law changed our minds and we turned IVF/ICSI/TESE for our infant.

All set up and waiting on my blood test to show I could start my meds, I go ta phone call from my RN. Not only had I not ovulated, but the Dr.s had concern over my husband’s hormones. They had mentioned the possiblity of mTESE before, but now they wanted us to consider DS. Our intial reaction was no. Heartbreaking, but we are still in the mindset to adopt and the only thing we were loosing was a chance to have an infant. Then my DH said he wanted to go the DS route. Here is his arguments:

1- he has a bio-son from previous marriage
2-he worked in environment with radiation and we have feared his exposure (his son conceived B4 that job)
3-He fear passing on bad genes. His family history has lots depression, substance abuse, and cancer
4-he said it would feel more like ‘his’ than adoption
5-is cheaper to use donor sperm than go through mTESE (which might not work)
6-Physically less painful (I hit him with a pillow for this point, I mean childbirth! Don’t mention pain)

It is taking me a bit to come around. In part becuase I feel like he is missing out, in part weirded out for putting some random dude’s sperm in me. But we talk to the Dr.s on Thursday and I think our decision will be DS.


#16

Just overheard a coworker refer to her baby daddy as a sperm donor. I realized that even though this is meant as an insult, in actuality, real sperm donors are more upright people than deadbeat dads (which I’m assuming is what she was talking about). It’s funny how it all comes down to perspective. If her pregnancy wasn’t planned, she may resent not having the full support and help from the father. Had she purposefully used dsInsem as a single woman, she’d be forever grateful to the man for the part he did play in her becoming a mother.

[B]Maschuk [/B]- those are all good points to consider. I also thought, hey, neither of us has genes that are all that great that humanity would be any lesser for us not reproducing ourselves! On the other hand, what we CAN contribute is in the way of passing on wisdom and values. The best genes can’t take the place of a proper upbringing.


#17

Hi thanks for link to thread below. Took me hours to read through all the pages and pages of posts but I found them extremely helpful in looking at both perspectives. Was disappointed to reach the end and still not find out if bostonyankee went through with the ds? Has he posted on here since? I think we have posted to each other before. How are things going?

[QUOTE=anilorak13ska][B]cmtb[/B] - welcome! I wanted to alert you to another thread, now closed, that was pretty extensive regarding the OP’s hesitations to use ds. Lots of people shared their experiences there, both for and against, I believe. Maybe not against per se, but hesitant. http://forums.fertilitycommunity.com/mens-infertility-support/2020181944-i-feel-like-less-man-today.html?highlight=boston+yankee[/QUOTE]