FET Chromosomally Normal Embryos turning into BFN


Looking for answers…I just did my 2nd IVF cycle and first FET for this 2nd cycle. I’m on an RPL protocol which consist of heparin, steroids, and intralipids. My embryos had the 23 micro array done, so I know they were normal. Today is 6dp5dt and I’m getting a negatives on hpt. Any idea why my normal embryos didn’t make it? I’m absolutely devastated. I’m starting to wonder if something went wrong during transfer. My RE clinic has very high success rates, but they do not use ultrasound guidance for transfers. I’m just looking for answers of why this failed with normal embies. I just don’t think normal embryos would take this long to implant. Please help…Thanks ladies for your advice.


I am so sorry. I know how devastating this is. My first failed FET was worse than I could have imagined.

Unfortunately, there is no way to really know why some embies stick and some don’t. After my first failed FET, we ended up with another batch from another donor, and they were all PGD-tested, chromosomally normal. The first one we tried was excellent quality and didn’t stick. Then we tried two more that were of OK quality and they didn’t stick either. Then we put in two barely-surviving poor-quality (but chromosomally normal) ones and I had a BFP on an HPT yesterday. Too early to know whether they’ll stick, but it’s a better result than the last few tries even though the embryos were of the poorest quality. It doesn’t make any sense at all.

I have never heard of doing a transfer without ultrasound guidance. Have you asked why they do that?


:cheer: Congrats on your BFP. I’m so happy for you! Sending you lots of :babydust: that your LO continues to grow nicely.

When I asked the doctor about ultrasound guidance, he just said it doesn’t matter. What matters is that he’ll measure the depth of the uterine cavity prior to transfer (he did this with ultrasound guidance to get the right depth) It was measured two months prior to the transfer. Then when I had my transfer, I noticed they didn’t use ultrasound guidance and I asked, and he said…“I’ve already measured the depth of the cavity, so I know how far to up to place the catheter with the embryos”. I didn’t question him because success rates are so high, but now…It seems I’m questioning everything.

Thanks for your reply, and good luck with the pregnancy. Wishing the best for you!


If he has excellent success rates and he says ultrasound guidance doesn’t help him, then I would be inclined to accept that. Maybe it really doesn’t make any difference once the cavity is measured. It may also make the procedure more uncomfortable, and if there’s no benefit, why do it?


Just to say that my FET was also done without ultrasound guidance and it was successful.


I assume you have checked for fibroids, polyps, endo?
How about endometrial biopsy to test for bacteria?

You probably have done all of these since I assume for all intralipids and PGD are the last resort for all of us. I understand how you feel it just sucks.


Yesterday I talked with the nurse and she did in fact confirm my beta being less than 1, which means 0. I asked her what happened, she said I did everything right and that it was probably the embryos not being competent. I said but they were normal and 5AA…she said but we don’t know if the quality was that good. I’m pissed, but needless to say maybe I just have bad eggs or bad luck. How can normal embryos end up being incompetent and stop growing. If that was the case I should never had done PGD, I told her that and she said Dr.Nemiro will review my case and call me on Wednesday

Maybe my immune system wasn’t suppressed enough. I’m not sure what happened, but I’ve contacted Dr. Braverman and will proceed with a new protocol and further testing with him prior to my last FET.


I’m so sorry, you would think that transferring 5AA’s that were tested and came back normal would result in pregnancy. From your signature it looks like you have had a long road to this point. I did some reading up on transfer techniques before my transfer - ultrasound guidance is generally considered a good thing, but it is to help place the embryo’s at exactly the right depth. If you stick with this doctor, why not ask him to use ultrasound the next time? If it doesn’t hurt anything and helps your peace of mind, he should consider accommodating your request. Having a smooth transfer (ie zero trouble with getting the catheter in) is the best. Was yours OK or was there trouble? There are also methods to make sure that the embryo’s don’t get stuck in the catheter, don’t get pushed out too soon, etc. This involves drawing up a little air bubble between them and a bubble in front of/behind them that acts as a cushion …it goes fluid - air - fluid - blast - fluid - air - fluid - blast - fluid - air… (I think).

I think that the statistics on pregnancy with PDG normal embryo’s are 60-70%. So as much as it totally sucks, you may have had bad luck. Or maybe there is something else going on, which is why this stuff is so frustrating. But it sounds like you are taking steps to try to figure out if it IS something, which is great.

It looks like you have done a lot of testing and uncovered some useful information. Have you had your thyroid levels tested? I’d also encourage you to look into acupuncture. I’m of the opinion it can help with stress, inflammation, hormones, etc. Might be worth looking into. I hope you get some answers from Dr. Braverman. :grouphug:


kemiracle- I am so sorry:( I do PGD ivf and have transferred normal embryos twice and they didn’t take. I am also 32. I switched to Dr. Braverman in Feb after my original RE couldn’t give me any answers. I know exactly how you feel.

To my surprise, Dr. Braverman discovered I have borderline insulin resistance and developed a whole new plan for me. (I was really shocked because I’m not overweight or PCOS and no diabetes in my family.) So you never know what could be wrong! I am hoping and praying it works with an FET in August:) I hope that he can help you too. I love having him as my Dr! PM me if you have any questions. I’ll be rooting for you! GOOD LUCK!


I was told by both Dr. Braverman and my RE that just because embryos are chromosomally normal they can have issues at the “mitochondrial level” and not become a viable pregnancy.

I think the bottom line is they just don’t know why chromosomally normal embryos don’t stick.


Im also obe of those who had 2 normal ones transferred that ended in chemical.i went to dr. Braverman. He disvovered we have 6 hla matches. Now we are trying to get cgh normal embryos that we will transfer while using neupogen that should treat those matches. I agree with you to address the issue than to transfer other normal ones without prior investigation.

Let us know what went wrong!

All the best!


[QUOTE=KTB_]I was told by both Dr. Braverman and my RE that just because embryos are chromosomally normal they can have issues at the “mitochondrial level” and not become a viable pregnancy.

I think the bottom line is they just don’t know why chromosomally normal embryos don’t stick.[/QUOTE]

Did you try neupogen?


:thankyou: Thank you ladies for all of your help and advice. I’m so truly sorry that you ladies also had to experience what I had just went through. My RE did not shy away from the truth and told me that he just didn’t know why it didn’t take. He said everything was perfect and his staff is stumped that it didn’t work.

[B]cosmopolitan4112008[/B] - I did not use Neupogen this time because I didn’t learn about it until after my BFN. I asked my RE and he’s never heard of it.

Dh and I have decided to transfer our last two male embryo’s into a gestational carrier. She is a friend, so we’re hoping it wont be to crazy expensive. We are also looking into doing embryo adoption and transferring them into me. My RE states that with my past history of cancer that my body is just attacking my embies and he thinks I’ll have a better chance with a embryo that isn’t my DNA. I’m just mad that I took the chance and transferred my only female embryo…now she’s gone. I’ve been researching donated embryo’s but 90% don’t have PGD done, and I would like a daughter if possible. I’m hoping and praying that within the next year…i’ll be able to hold my baby/babies. I just keep going back and forth on what to do… :grr:


Question about neupogen was for KTB lady:)

I’m sorry for what you have been through. I know how it feels. Neupogen actually helps fighting cancer cells (this was its original purpose). If you can financially, let dr. Braverman check your hla matches. This neupogen could be your answer. Talk to him please.


Kemiracle- I am so sorry to hear you had a past history of cancer. My heart breaks for you. I know what its like to lose a chromosomally normal girl because I lost one in January. It’s awful. I think knowing the gender makes it even harder because mentally you get attached … I didn’t find out she was a girl until after it didn’t work. You’re right, even normal embryos can fail… but there is a supplement Dr. B recommended to me, called mitochondrial optimizer. I took it for months before my retrieval. :pray::cross: that it helped and my embies are ok at the mitochondrial level. I’m 32, and out of 10 grade A blasts biopsied only 4 were chromosomally “normal” - its amazing to me!

Did Dr. B recommend Neupogen to you? It may help as cosmo said. I am doing it this round as well.

I hope we all are holding our babies in our arms soon. No matter how they get there, it will all be worth the wait: )


[QUOTE=cosmopolitan4112008]Did you try neupogen?[/QUOTE]

Neupogen is Dr. Braverman’s suggestion for us. We will most likely use it with our next transfer.


[QUOTE=KTB_]Neupogen is Dr. Braverman’s suggestion for us. We will most likely use it with our next transfer.[/QUOTE]

We are also heading toward that direction.
When do you expect to have your transfer?

Hopefully this will be our answer to the problem:pray:


What is the test thay Dr.Braverman ran to decide if you need Neoprogen? My DH is head set on transferring our last two embies into a gestational carrier, but it’s tearing me apart knowing that I may never get to experience pregnancy or give birth to our child. I’m having such a hard time accepting the the fact that I will never be able to carry that its pushing me into a deep dark depression.


In my case, , specifically, he discovered 6 hla matches.i had genetically normal embryos and experienced chemicals; so he thinks it could be those mayches. He uses neurogen to treat them.

I think KTB is the same story.
Hopingfortwins-let’s see what she will say:)

Why don’t you have yourself tested for those things???


I have been tested for those. I believe I’ve been tested for everything under the sun…