Five follicles but no eggs?


#1

Has anyone reading this heard of or experienced making follicles and then not having any eggs??? I went in for retrieval on Sunday and when I came too they told me that there were no eggs inside my follicles.

Has anyone heard of this?? They seems to think I will not have any eggs EVER and are telling me I am done. This was my first attempt?? Should I give up?? FSH of 19…

Has anyone had this happen and then did get pregnant later??

On Tuesday and Wednesday last week my follicles shrunk and then grew again. I think that the eggs were released when they shrunk.:grr:

Any advice? Stories to share??:cross:

Thank you in advance!


#2

If you google “empty follicle syndrome” you will find some info. I think it’s premature to give up hope. From what I’ve read online, it seems that many try a different protocol, and many times it never happens again.


#3

THANK YOU!!!


#4

My last egg retrieval was on 9/26. I had 5 mature follicles. No eggs were retrieved. We were devastated! Two weeks later I took a hpt and it was positive. It ended in miscarriage and I believe that was because I had no progesterone after my egg retrieval. The dr’s obviously had no hope that I would get pregnant, told my hubby that we should look into donor egg or adoption. The dr that did the retrieval didn’t say they were empty, just that he couldn’t get them to come out that the stuck to the follicle wall. When I had my follow up appointment with my dr (he didn’t do the retrieval) he said that the follicles were empty. I informed them that they obviously were not empty since I did get pregnant. I think sometimes the dr’s say they are empty because the can’t explain why they can’t retrieve them. Could you possibly do iui? Best of luck to you.


#5

It happened to me yesterday

I had an egg retrieval, and yes - the same situation - I had 4 follicles, no egg cells retrieved. Two days before the retrieval my RE observed high LH (>40!) which was an indication that something went wrong (now I think). At the same time, I had the feeling of ovulation because all my side effects of the stim were gone (pain in the ovaries, etc). When I came to the retrieval there were only 4 follicles left (out of 6 a few days before), - no egg cells found.

I now believe I had ovulation before the trigger and that was the reason why there were no eggs left.

I am now also sorry I did not cancel the cycle, and wonder how come there is no way to see that the follicles are empty before doing the retrieval. Also wonder why my RE did not cancel the cycle and did the retrieval which was rather painful.

Me: 43
DH: 42

Unexplained Infertility
IVF #1 no eggs retrieved
Stim: 300 ui Gonal, Menopur 150ui, Ganirelix for suppression, ovitrelle trigger


#6

This is more common with people who are your age and has such a small sample(small follicle count). At times it’s very hard to get oocytes(not sure why). Sounds like either you took the meds incorrectly prior to your retrieval, or your body released the eggs before retrieval…hence no eggs at retrieval.

I would not give up just yet. I would reccommend another try if you can handle if it were to happen again. If not, you may want to consider donor egg.

Good luck either way!!:cross:


#7

Luteinizing Hormone

[quote=Lynus]I had an egg retrieval, and yes - the same situation - I had 4 follicles, no egg cells retrieved. Two days before the retrieval my RE observed high LH (>40!) which was an indication that something went wrong (now I think). At the same time, I had the feeling of ovulation because all my side effects of the stim were gone (pain in the ovaries, etc). When I came to the retrieval there were only 4 follicles left (out of 6 a few days before), - no egg cells found.

I now believe I had ovulation before the trigger and that was the reason why there were no eggs left.

I am now also sorry I did not cancel the cycle, and wonder how come there is no way to see that the follicles are empty before doing the retrieval. Also wonder why my RE did not cancel the cycle and did the retrieval which was rather painful.
[/quote]

When your LH surged did the doctors not discuss doing IUI for you then?? It would make sense that you ovulated without the LH drug but rather on your own. (This could be due to a dozen reasons) but when the docs saw the LH surge I’d think that they would suggest IUI the next day?? hmmmm, interesting nonetheless.

To answer why they can’t see the egg. I was told by two docs and a nurse to think about how small the follicle is. Now think about the egg being attached to the inside of the follicle wall. It is so small that they just cannot see it with current ultrasound technology. And using MRI or another tool would just be too expensive.

As for what happens with the LH surge. You have your LH surge (self or drugs) it tells the follicle to release the egg from the follicle wall and about 2 days later your body pushes it out and it makes it was down the fallopian tubes.

When they go to retrieve the egg they aspirate the follicle. Which means they stick a needle in it and suck out the eggs. if the egg is attached to the wall of the follicle you end up killing it in the aspiration process when the follicle collapses after the fluid is drained from it. If the follicle already released it it’s on its way down the fallopian tubes. The third thing that could have happened was the egg disintegrated inside the follicle (this is common for women our age as the eggs are not as strong/healthy as in our 20’s). When the Doctor goes into aspirate he or she will see “floating material”. In my case and I am guessing in your case our eggs did not disintegrate but were either still stuck to the follicle wall (my case) or were released by the LH (Luteinizing Hormone) surge.

Nonetheless, do not give up on your dream to be a mother to your biological child! Educate yourself and read and read and read a little more so you can make decisions as things happen in the process. This can help you feel a little more in control of something we just have no control over.

:babydust: Sending you babydust and happy wishes for your future! :babydust:


#8

Doctors don’t know everything!

JJ,

I just read this sorry about the delay replying!

I am going to do IUI this month. And I totally agree with you that the Doctors will lable such things when they just don’t know the answer. I really wished I’d known this as I would have insisted on IUI that day. <>

I, like you, will keep on keepin’ on!

Thanks!


#9

[quote=skisunfun]

When your LH surged did the doctors not discuss doing IUI for you then?? It would make sense that you ovulated without the LH drug but rather on your own. (This could be due to a dozen reasons) but when the docs saw the LH surge I’d think that they would suggest IUI the next day?? hmmmm, interesting nonetheless.

[end quote=skisunfun]

Thank you, your mail was very helpful. I too wonder why my doc did not suggest IUI? That is an agonizing thought, since I could have saved myself the pain of a retrieval. The only reason I can think of is the RE may be afraid of multiple pregnancies, (since I had 6 follicles), - but my RE never mentioned IUI, and asked me to trigger after the LH>40 test and come to retrieval. I am afraid this was wrong and wonder how much one should decide for herself, and how much to listen to the RE…I am agonized by the idea that I could have saved an retrieval to myself, and perhaps had an IUI at least to hope being pregnant…

Regarding the protocol vs. empty follicles: I was exact about the protocol, but I am afraid I do not believe anymore that IVF is as “controlled” as it appears when we start it. Except for clear medical cases of missing ovaries, or closed tubes, how was my IVF different from ovulation monitoring from CVS? I am afraid that IVF gives the same “forecast” and “likelihood” as everything else, especially, like you said, with women over 40, but: it is not as exact as we think, and our bodies do what they like,…Maybe it is jsut my RE and my bad luck, which I would like to believe.

Thank you all - everybody here is so wonderful, and my big source of strength!


#10

Thanks! I did take meds like I was instructed. You are right that my age can mean empty follicles :frowning: However, if age+uncontrolled ovulation meet together, empty follicles are more likely, I think, and that is what happened to me, I guess…


#11

I’ve read that empty follicle syndrome can happen when the trigger does not work and that some people have been able to catch it and give a second trigger…it may have nothing at all to do with you but the trigger.


#12

Yes, that is what I also read while searching “empty follicle syndrome”. I would like to know if anybody has used it?


#13

I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I can’t imagine how frustrating it is!!

I would most certainly try again with a new RE! I wish you the best of luck!


#14

Thank you!

[quote=LadyLuck]I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I can’t imagine how frustrating it is!!

I would most certainly try again with a new RE! I wish you the best of luck![/quote]

I am positive that I must have early ovulated and the eggs were already out. I read a ton of websites talking about “empty follicle syndrome” and many of them report women who have partners ended up getting pregnant on their own that week.

If this ever happens again I will insist on an IUI for sure.

As for the new Doc … heck ya!! I changed clinics entirely. I am convinced the Doctor running the clinic I was working with was TOO worried about his reported pregnancy numbers which is why he kept INSISTING that I use donor eggs.

He was an ***. But my new doc and clinic is all women Docs and they really focus on the patient rather than their reported pregnancy numbers. - Smart. Refreshing.

Thanks for the post. It’s nice to hear from people even if it’s just to say they read the post.

Hope you are having a very merry merry holiday season! :wink:


#15

[quote=LadyLuck]I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I can’t imagine how frustrating it is!!

I would most certainly try again with a new RE! I wish you the best of luck![/quote]

PS: I just read you are taking DHEA … I just posted up on the over 40 TTC forum asking if anyone was taking DHEA.

Did your Doc prescribe it for you? How much are you taking and who makes it??? I’ve been reading a lot on it tonight and it sure makes me want to run out and get some.

Thanks!


#16

my RE’s opinion on early ovulation

[quote=skisunfun]I am positive that I must have early ovulated and the eggs were already out. I read a ton of websites talking about “empty follicle syndrome” and many of them report women who have partners ended up getting pregnant on their own that week.

If this ever happens again I will insist on an IUI for sure.
[/quote]

Dear Skisunfun, if it is of any help to you, the same happened to me and I early ovulated. Even my RE now admits that ovulation came in between, and should not have. The only explanation I was given was that the Orgalutran-Ganirelix was not the right choice for me, and next time I should use another drug to suppress ovulation. My Re said that “empty follicles” do happen, but an early ovulation must not happen in an IVF therapy and is rare.

I will keep you posted if I learn anything new. Note that I started another tread on early ovulation and empty follicles, hoping to hear from others, but nobody responded. Given that this community is very supportive and discusses everything, it is a sign that uncontrolled early ovulation is very rare, and it seems nobody here but you and I made this experience.

Take care!!


#17

My RE prescribed it for egg quality. I only used it for about 2 weeks though. I took 75mg a day and they had me stop the day before my retrieval. The DHEA I used was prescription and it was compounded by the acutual pharmacy. There are tons of DHEA supplemements out there but you want to make sure you get the compounded pharmaceutical grade stuff.

Some women take it months beforehand but I think I only took it for two weeks because I started my cycle pretty much right after my consultation whereas other women start a while after their consultation. Good luck!!


#18

[quote=Lynus]Dear Skisunfun, if it is of any help to you, the same happened to me and I early ovulated. Even my RE now admits that ovulation came in between, and should not have. The only explanation I was given was that the Orgalutran-Ganirelix was not the right choice for me, and next time I should use another drug to suppress ovulation. My Re said that “empty follicles” do happen, but an early ovulation must not happen in an IVF therapy and is rare.

I will keep you posted if I learn anything new. Note that I started another tread on early ovulation and empty follicles, hoping to hear from others, but nobody responded. Given that this community is very supportive and discusses everything, it is a sign that uncontrolled early ovulation is very rare, and it seems nobody here but you and I made this experience.

Take care!![/quote]

Lynus,

I am sorry that happened to you too. But happy you posted. - I agree there doesn’t seem to be many people who have had this happen. And whan I search the web many times women were getting pregnant by their hubbies. Had I known this I would have insisted on an IUI when the follies showed up empty.

Well I went out today and got my DHEA, 25mg three times a day with food. I did quite a bit of research and I got the Natures Plus - 25 DHEA.
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=4968&productnumber=4968&category=29

It’s pharmaceutical grade and even comes with a certificate when I opened the bottle. And Vegan so no animal bi-products in the manufacturing of it.

Even though it says it takes 4 months to really show benefits I am going to go ahead with my IUI this month… I think. Gosh with it costing so much money it’s so hard to say “Ya this is t. This is the month I’ve been eating right, exercising and wait a minute what do you mean I should be taking a supplement that takes four months to work!!!”

ugh!! :grr:

lol … I was just re-reading this thread and notived that they put *** where I wrote the three letter word for buttocks in reference to my last doctor. ha ha ha. Oh that’s funny.


#19

[quote=skisunfun] I agree there doesn’t seem to be many people who have had this happen. And whan I search the web many times women were getting pregnant by their hubbies. Had I known this I would have insisted on an IUI when the follies showed up empty.

.[/quote]

I am very glad to see that two months after your IVF with “empty follicles” you are already doing UIU. Way to go!!!

If your gut feeling back then was that IUI was the right alternative, and I do think it was, and I regret I did not consider it myself!!!, I am crossing fingers for your 12/10 IUI!!!

BEST WISHES !!!

PS> Thanks for the DHEA pointer!!!


#20

Follicles and no eggs

That just happened to me. I had egg retrieval on Sunday and had no eggs. My doctor thinks that I may have ovulated too early but is not really sure. My FSH level had dropped from 18 to 6.9 so that is why we decided to go for it this month even though there were only two follicles. I may try again in a few months after I collect my thoughts. I think he is leaning more towards doner egg but that is 25K that we can’t afford.